Comments on: dead ideas http://matthewcostner.com/2010/03/dead-ideas/ A Holy Mess Thu, 19 Aug 2010 01:22:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: matt http://matthewcostner.com/2010/03/dead-ideas/comment-page-1/#comment-689 matt Tue, 09 Mar 2010 03:28:06 +0000 http://matthewcostner.com/?p=596#comment-689 lots of one on one discussion and intentional time focused on the scripture. sunday school and small groups are great, but nothing beats mono y mono when you can do it. i definitely think any and all leaders should have at least one person a week they spend some one on one time with working to disciple them. lots of one on one discussion and intentional time focused on the scripture. sunday school and small groups are great, but nothing beats mono y mono when you can do it. i definitely think any and all leaders should have at least one person a week they spend some one on one time with working to disciple them.

]]> By: Nathan Cochrane http://matthewcostner.com/2010/03/dead-ideas/comment-page-1/#comment-686 Nathan Cochrane Tue, 09 Mar 2010 01:06:35 +0000 http://matthewcostner.com/?p=596#comment-686 I do think that Sunday school is becoming a thing of the past. I really like what I saw from Pantego. Discipleship, bible-study, mentoring and ministry recruiting are all functions of small group or community group ministry. It's the most comprehensive disciple producing model that I've seen in a church. I've talked with our leadership team about moving in that direction, but I can't get them to visualize it. In some ways our church is progressive and willing to move forward and in other ways we're still very traditional. I think we have to be as sound in our understanding of how people learn and apply knowledge as we are in our study of the Word of God. I have a hard time seeing the point of preaching yourself blue in the face in a manner in which other's can't hear or understand it. I often wonder, when we give an account to God for how we shepherd His people and we say, "God, did I not preach the gospel as biblically correct as I knew how?" that He is going to respond by saying, "But did you ever care to preach my Word in a way that people could hear and receive?" OK, it may sound like I'm unhappy where I am, but I'm really not. Just thinking out loud. So how do you answer the question, "What is the best means of making a mature disciple?" I do think that Sunday school is becoming a thing of the past. I really like what I saw from Pantego. Discipleship, bible-study, mentoring and ministry recruiting are all functions of small group or community group ministry. It’s the most comprehensive disciple producing model that I’ve seen in a church. I’ve talked with our leadership team about moving in that direction, but I can’t get them to visualize it. In some ways our church is progressive and willing to move forward and in other ways we’re still very traditional. I think we have to be as sound in our understanding of how people learn and apply knowledge as we are in our study of the Word of God. I have a hard time seeing the point of preaching yourself blue in the face in a manner in which other’s can’t hear or understand it. I often wonder, when we give an account to God for how we shepherd His people and we say, “God, did I not preach the gospel as biblically correct as I knew how?” that He is going to respond by saying, “But did you ever care to preach my Word in a way that people could hear and receive?”

OK, it may sound like I’m unhappy where I am, but I’m really not. Just thinking out loud.

So how do you answer the question, “What is the best means of making a mature disciple?”

]]> By: matt http://matthewcostner.com/2010/03/dead-ideas/comment-page-1/#comment-685 matt Mon, 08 Mar 2010 14:11:47 +0000 http://matthewcostner.com/?p=596#comment-685 1. i love that you referenced spurgeon. 2. that sounds like something i would say. haha. we always need to speak in love, but sometimes, saying things lovingly doesn't seem to get the point across. :) 3. agreed. 4. i agree again. i do think that Sunday school can be done great, but i think it is quickly becoming a thing of the past... do you? 1. i love that you referenced spurgeon.
2. that sounds like something i would say. haha. we always need to speak in love, but sometimes, saying things lovingly doesn’t seem to get the point across. :)
3. agreed.
4. i agree again. i do think that Sunday school can be done great, but i think it is quickly becoming a thing of the past… do you?

]]> By: Nathan Cochrane http://matthewcostner.com/2010/03/dead-ideas/comment-page-1/#comment-680 Nathan Cochrane Mon, 08 Mar 2010 03:19:00 +0000 http://matthewcostner.com/?p=596#comment-680 Hey Matt, A couple (or more) thoughts: 1. People who will not let something go or hold to a particular practice to the exclusion productive ministry remind me of people that Spurgeon called "un-turned cakes." He described them as people who allowed only part of the gospel to permeate their lives. They then cling to that particular truth with such severity and exclude the rest of the truth. The are like a cake that never gets turned and becomes burnt and hard (legalistic) on one side and remain uncooked on the other (sloppy grace). 2. People who become attached to a practice or methodology have found their identity in that particular practice or experience and not in person or work of Christ. Example, at a former church we had a large screen that came down while sang so that words could be projected on it. One day someone came to me and said that the screen covered up their view of the cross and prohibited their ability to truly worship. (Being a young and not so tactful person at that time) responded, "Did you just tell me that your ability to worship was dependent upon your ability to see a piece of wood?" Needless to say, that conversation didn't get anything resolved and for the life of me I could not convince her that her worship needed to be based upon the work of a LIVING God and not on the wood at the front of the sanctuary. 3. We've got to be willing to not simply let things die, but put a swift and decisive end to anything that does not produce mature disciples who worship God and serve His church. Ministry methods, like anything else, can either serve as the tool we use or the master we serve. 4. I would say that Sunday school is something that a lot of churches cling to, yet do poorly. For some churches Sunday school is a vibrant and healthy part of discipleship, but for most I would say not. I think that small group or kinship ministries are probably the more effective way to teach people today. Pantego Bible Church is a really interesting example of that. Hey Matt,

A couple (or more) thoughts:

1. People who will not let something go or hold to a particular practice to the exclusion productive ministry remind me of people that Spurgeon called “un-turned cakes.” He described them as people who allowed only part of the gospel to permeate their lives. They then cling to that particular truth with such severity and exclude the rest of the truth. The are like a cake that never gets turned and becomes burnt and hard (legalistic) on one side and remain uncooked on the other (sloppy grace).
2. People who become attached to a practice or methodology have found their identity in that
particular practice or experience and not in person or work of Christ. Example, at a former church we had a large screen that came down while sang so that words could be projected on it. One day someone came to me and said that the screen covered up their view of the cross and prohibited their ability to truly worship. (Being a young and not so tactful person at that time) responded, “Did you just tell me that your ability to worship was dependent upon your ability to see a piece of wood?” Needless to say, that conversation didn’t get anything resolved and for the life of me I could not convince her that her worship needed to be based upon the work of a LIVING God and not on the wood at the front of the sanctuary.
3. We’ve got to be willing to not simply let things die, but put a swift and decisive end to anything that does not produce mature disciples who worship God and serve His church. Ministry methods, like anything else, can either serve as the tool we use or the master we serve.
4. I would say that Sunday school is something that a lot of churches cling to, yet do poorly. For some churches Sunday school is a vibrant and healthy part of discipleship, but for most I would say not. I think that small group or kinship ministries are probably the more effective way to teach people today. Pantego Bible Church is a really interesting example of that.

]]> By: mary http://matthewcostner.com/2010/03/dead-ideas/comment-page-1/#comment-673 mary Sat, 06 Mar 2010 05:23:38 +0000 http://matthewcostner.com/?p=596#comment-673 I agree and I would say, 'tradition' tops the list. For instance, coffee pots in the church are often tradition. Perhaps not the kind of example folks would expect; but caffeine is a nerve toxin. When it hits the blood stream the cortocotropic (bad spelling) receptors ignite and send adrenal flooding the blood to flush out the caffeine. Thats why we get stimulated. The body it trying to remove the toxin from the body as quickly as possible. So why do so many churches encourage caffeine intake into the temples of God? If any one gives up caffeinated drinks the first few days includes headaches. That is a withdrawl response because of an addiction to caffeine. People look at alcoholics and drug addicts and pray for them. Why do churches encourage poison intake into the temples? TRADITION. People did not know for many years that caffeine was bad let alone addictive. But people know now, so why do we still have coffee pots in many churches? Bad traditions. I agree and I would say, ‘tradition’ tops the list. For instance, coffee pots in the church are often tradition. Perhaps not the kind of example folks would expect; but caffeine is a nerve toxin. When it hits the blood stream the cortocotropic (bad spelling) receptors ignite and send adrenal flooding the blood to flush out the caffeine. Thats why we get stimulated. The body it trying to remove the toxin from the body as quickly as possible. So why do so many churches encourage caffeine intake into the temples of God? If any one gives up caffeinated drinks the first few days includes headaches. That is a withdrawl response because of an addiction to caffeine. People look at alcoholics and drug addicts and pray for them. Why do churches encourage poison intake into the temples? TRADITION. People did not know for many years that caffeine was bad let alone addictive. But people know now, so why do we still have coffee pots in many churches? Bad traditions.

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